I got the shakes no amount of alcohol can stop

"just-a-scratch" (just-a-scratch) 04/16/2019 at 00:12 • Filed to: None

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I haven’t been able to figure out WTF is causing this minor shaking I have in the steering. It begins to be noticeable at about 60 mph but doesn’t get terrible. I would just ignore it, but i want to enjoy driving this car, and driving it hard.

Maybe someone around here can give me some better ideas of what to do.

This is a history of modifications done to my 1996 BMW 328i since fall of 2018. Vibration in the steering has been difficult to diagnose and resolve. It is noticeable at speeds of 60 mph and higher.

October 2018

Replaced OEM 15x7 ET41wheels. (no steering shake was ever noted running with the 15” wheels)

Replacement wheels sized 17x7 47mm offset from 2001 325xi. 225/45/17 mismatched old tires were already mounted.

November 2018

330i front brake calipers and rotors(Ate/OEM)

325xi rear brake calipers and rotors (Ate/OEM)

New brake pads front and rear (Hawk HPS)

Custom fabricated parking brake shoes

Stainless steel braided brake hoses (Turner)

E36 M3 master cylinder (Centric)

December 2018

front control arm bushings (Powerflex)

New front control arms

New rear lower outer poly bushings (Powerflex)

New rear upper outer ball joints (Lemforder)

New rear trailing arm bushings, rubber (Meyle HD)

Steering wheel noted to be shaking at speeds over 60 mph. This condition may have existed before this point. It’s unclear when it started.

Late December 2018

New tires mounted and balanced on 17” wheels.

Tried mounting spare at each corner in turn to identify an out of balance wheel. None seemed makedly better or worse than others.

March 2019

New front coil-over struts and caster-camber plates (Bilstein PSS9 B16 & Vorshlag camber-caster plates)

New rear springs and adjust able perches (Bilstein PSS9 B16)

Tie rods appear tight and in good condition.

April 2019

Car taken to shop (Europa). Diagnosed as having bent wheels.

New wheels, cast aluminum wheels sized17x7.5 with 42mm offset; tires mounted and balanced.

Steering shake persists.

LF brake is dragging slightly. I suspect caliper pins need to be replaced.

bob and john > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:16

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erm. are the wheels balanced, and actually round and straight ?

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:23

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Could something outside the wheel be out of balance?

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > bob and john 04/16/2019 at 00:26

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I would like to add, are the rims themselves round? Maybe get them roadforce balanced?

just-a-scratch > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 04/16/2019 at 00:26

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I was thinking about the front brake rotors for that, but I’ve never heard of that being an issue for any other car before.

I just did a quick visual run-out check on the wheels. The car is on jack stands and I put a reference next to the rim while I spin it by hand. I couldn’t see anything. The wheels seem to be true. That makes it seem like it’s not a bearing/hub/spindle problem.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:27

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I dont see anything regarding wheel bearings. They fine?

Also, maybe your rims are not round anymore, my Mini’s had the same issue.

just-a-scratch > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 04/16/2019 at 00:28

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That’s a new one to me. I’ll look into road force balancing.

just-a-scratch > bob and john 04/16/2019 at 00:31

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I did a quick visual run-out check. All seemed good there.

I’ve had this set of tires mounted and balanced on two different wheel sets with the same symptoms.

The old tires had the same symptoms on the old 17" wheels. I’m doubtful on wheels being the issue at this point.

just-a-scratch > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 04/16/2019 at 00:33

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I don’t hear anything like the classic wheel bearing noise. The rear wheel bearings were replaced about 20k miles ago. I haven’t noticed play in the wheels.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:33

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Roadforce accounts for the difference in the roundness of the wheel and the tire. They load up the tire/wheel combo to simulate real life conditions and then rotate the tire to match the wheel. The wheel wobble is almost gone from my Mini.

Alas, I think the tires themselves are bad on my car...

bob and john > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:34

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so, are the TIRES round? posible its work unevenly and thats your problem . and a visual run out check isnt going to do the job, get a dial gauge and spin the fucker and make sure some pothole didnt ovalize it

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:34

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Could be the tires themselves you know.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 00:47

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I drove 600 miles with a shitty bearing. The shop said they had no clue how I could have driven that long. The only indication was a slight squeak while between 3/8 and 1/4 steering turn. If you can lift up your car, its a cheap and easy  check.

Shift24 > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 01:21

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The on the ground check is only really for trashed bearings. And wheel bearing are very tricky, sometimes it’s only when it’s on its last leg does it do something. A s Italian said get it up and and wiggle it up and down.

A lso while you’re there check tie-r od play. Wiggle it left and right while looking at the tie-rod. Helps to have the steering locked. Should be very little play. 

phenotyp > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 01:49

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Could it be a driveshaft imbalance? I had that problem with my rx7, way back when. Does the shaking also include a noise? 

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 02:32

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Is it just in the steering or do you feel it through the seat too?

If it’s just in the steering, it’s probably not wheel/tire related: most things that can go wrong there will also result in vertical forces which will move the body round so you’ll feel it in the seat. In this case it’s most likely suspension or brake related - something that’s resulting in changes in tracking or wheel torque without vertical force. The dragging brake - or consequential uneven disk wear - might be the culprit in that case: for some suspension geometries, slight brake force pulsations feed back surprisingly strongly to the steering (brakes used to be my expertise once upon a time).

If you’re feeling it through the seat too, next question is does it go away at speeds well above 60mph. If it does, start looking at shocks and bu shes. Wheel rotation frequency is close to suspension natural frequency at around 60mph for most cars, so if it goes away either side of that, damping problems are a good contender. I see your struts are new, so other rubber and joints in the weight-bearing systems would be suspects in that case.

miniandfiST, now with added FoRS > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 04:44

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I’d look closely at whether the new rotors have warped slightly. OEM or not this can happen. The other possibility is the new rotors are not seated right on the hub flanges. If the shaking is worse under light braking, I’d be looking even more closely.  Otherwise, I take it the tracking is fine and there’s no feathering on the tread?

nerd_racing > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 07:09

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Inner tie rod ends? 

diplodicus forgot his password > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 08:16

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Do the bearings, it’s easy. Should cost you like 200$ both bearings, nuts,dust cap. I think the e36 is a 46mm front axle nut. You’ll want to get one that isn’t for an impact gun because it won’t fit inside your hub.

My e30 had a front end vibration and I thought the bearings were fine. Then I started getting a screech so I ended up replacing them. Turned out the bearings weren’t the source of the screech but the vibration went away, for a few days then a new problem reared its head. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 08:26

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Road force balancing is great.  I had a Pontiac Grand Prix and I swapped on some Eagle Alloy 18x8's and I kept having vibration issues until I took them to a shop that could road force balance them. No issues after that.  

4kc > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 09:09

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One of the  top rear strut mounts in my e46 were blown out and caused a similar vibration, have you done those?

loki03xlh > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 09:18

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I had the same problem once. Shaking started around 50mph. It turned our I had a broken belt in one of the tires.

just-a-scratch > loki03xlh 04/16/2019 at 12:09

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Wow. How old or worn were the tires?

just-a-scratch > 4kc 04/16/2019 at 12:11

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I just replaced the mounts with the new shocks, and added reinforcement plates. I should check all that stuff again for torque .

just-a-scratch > Shift24 04/16/2019 at 12:17

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It’s on jack stands now with wheels in the air. No bearing play at any wheel. No detectable play in tie rods. I’ll check again when I get home anyway. It’s too easy not to do it.

just-a-scratch > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 04/16/2019 at 12:26

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I have a minor drag on the left front brake. I can still spin it with one finger, but it’s there. I’m planning to do some work on that caliper. I don’t feel any pulsation/vibration in the pedal at any speed and the pedal stays high and firm.

Front suspension is regular old McPherson strut with height & damping adjustable coil-over.

Rear suspension has upper and lower control arm with the hub on the trailing arm. 

Shocks and struts are new all around. I had the same symptoms with the old shocks too.

All the bushings are new, except for the rear upper control arm inner bushings and rear subframe/differential bushings. See the original post for details.

just-a-scratch > phenotyp 04/16/2019 at 12:27

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I’ve got squeaks and rattles, but none that correlate with the steering shake.

loki03xlh > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 13:35

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Tires were a couple years old, but looked brand new. It was previously my grandma’s car, and she quit driving shortly after getting new tires.

Shift24 > just-a-scratch 04/16/2019 at 14:17

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Damn man, I dont know what else it could be. I mean maybe it just boils down to the dragging brake. Have had a locked caliper violently shake so maybe a dragging brake could cause a slight shake?

just-a-scratch > Shift24 04/16/2019 at 14:51

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That’s one of my next ideas to pursue.

just-a-scratch > phenotyp 04/27/2019 at 02:07

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Worn o ut front caliper bushings were causing the caliper to bind and release, resulting in vibration. 

just-a-scratch > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 04/27/2019 at 02:08

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Worn out front caliper bushings were causing the caliper to bind and release, resulting in vibration.  

just-a-scratch > loki03xlh 04/27/2019 at 02:08

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Worn out front caliper bushings were causing the caliper to bind and release, resulting in vibration.  

just-a-scratch > Shift24 04/27/2019 at 02:10

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DING DING DING WINNER!

Worn out front caliper bushings were causing the caliper to bind and release, resulting in vibration.  

phenotyp > just-a-scratch 04/27/2019 at 02:12

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Ah. I had stuck back calipers on the old RX7. The rubber parts were shit, but I could fix them. 

just-a-scratch > phenotyp 04/27/2019 at 02:22

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I actually upgraded to brass bushings instead of the OEM rubber ones. 

phenotyp > just-a-scratch 04/27/2019 at 02:23

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Good move.